Ok, you win. I will explain all the idea, 'cos I'm tired of being accused to doing bad things for the community. First I have to say in the projects I participate I'm trying to going as far as I can...or as I am allowed.
I explain it from the start of this idea.
It was a day of 2014. I start to search JOSM plug-ins, and I discovered a plug-in called RoadSigns. Oh , sounds interesting. And I had installed. And I see about 30 traffic signs from Deustchland , and the same thing about 2 other countries. Spanish laws talk about 300 traffic signs so it was not enough for me.Could be possible to the same but in a complete way...for my traffic signs (Spain)? Well. I have tried. With a preset for this plug-in. And also I added some Catalan traffic signs (Catalan destination traffic signs are similar but not the same as Spanish ).Nowadays you can see it in roadsigns plug-in. It was a first aproach. It works well with generic traffic signs. But not was complete, ok for tag a node in map it could be useful.
Next step was... a JOSM mapping style. I forget one thing about me: I'm a teacher and I don't know ANYTHING about programming or whatever it could be similar. My method is open the file from working tool, and then I modify, I customize the code and try with test-error-test. So I took a working map style like Speedlimit Signs from Martin Koppenhoefer and started to tweak the code, duplicating it and customizing it to get the 300+ Spanish traffic signs. And it was good.
All these things were presented in SOTMCAT'14 with differents reactions. People do good comments but also as an utopic thing.
Then I tried to do a JOSM menu preset (what about putting traffic signs with only one click) because there I had the whole control (I can update it whenever I can.) With generic traffic signs, there was no problem.
But I continued to go far away. With generic traffic signs working, next step was "the 3D World". I test some options, and the winner (the unique I had opened , I had tried to modify code and it worked) was Kendzi3D JOSM plugin. The basic philosophy was: less extra different information from mapping to make it work.So I took a street lamp (there was a bench, a street lamp, a tree...) and then I attached in some ways (with Blender - a new program for me) a traffic sign. You can read there https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=399614#p399614
Also you can watch it here.
Oh! It works!! And with a Catalan sign!! Fantastic. But in Kendzi...you can turn around the world: How Can I say the map, hey I'm in the opposite direction!! I had searched in the OSM wiki a lot. And the option that days was the "deprecated use" of direction tag. A traffic sign, the most cases, has two directions: forward and backward, and also...it can be at the right, at the left of the road. So I had added two other tags: direction= and side= . Kendzi creator helped me a lot making a special Blender model (now I configure the texture of the model and not the model it self, so I can use only one model for every geographic form). Well I had finished all the generic traffic signs. And started to map ... a complete road. I took a piece of C-12 . I have started in Balaguer, and finished near Àger. I have downloaded the road hundreds of times. I have parted in every change of overtaking propierties, I put more than 500 traffic signs in two directions.
Oh, the 2.5D was great (no mountains, but rivers, no paintings but traffic signs.). and what about...destination traffic signs. It had no-sense to show example pic (in Spain is "los Corrales de Buelna" as wikipedia did) so I have started to modify existing tags (multiple values does not work so I have discarted at all) to make traffic signs work...with every country. One day would be C-12, Other would be Catalonia, Other would be Spain, and why not...Other will be all the traffic signs of the World. Finally I've got a system with all Spanish traffic signs...(except motorway's) and also I had a complete roundabout with all the positions!!!. It was a hard work because Kendzi says me it was not possible to "copy" the name of the tag and "print it" at the traffic sign, so I have started to make...every word or number or reference I need. Then big improvements were made from Kendzi creator: A new system of coordinates for models (I had to restart from the beggining but now the system was so accurate to put the models.), the possibility to edit the models' library, the possibility to load internet files (welcome automatic updates and custom updates!!) and the best, a lighting part (because traffic signs models were so dark that there were useless).Also I have started to make the motorways traffic signs and big panels, I swear you. But as I have finished Spanish preset of traffic signs new year came and other challenges and projects for OSM Catalan and OSM Spanish Community came to me :-Spanish phisic standard classification for roads and Public Transport in Catalonia (you can see https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1flUBR9BpVgv1qyLvK0GUu3G5fFcdVG8e8I3RDwhdKI4/edit?usp=sharing).
Also I tried to do maps as http://bit.ly/parkingosm, with the taggin' for my city (traffic signs, traffic lights, all the names of the streets, all the cycle lanes...). And then it returns. One day of early 2016 people from JOSM tell me, hey! we will deprecate XML style for JOSM...as yours... With their help and the other friends I have done a new style in mapcss. But...What happens if I put ALL the traffic signs here? As there is no big standard for global traffic signs I have started to codify it as countrycode:codeofthetrafficsign and also because mapcss allowed me to with one icon put the four positions. And then I have reviewed taginfo, and OSM wiki and I have discovered Finnish people and traffic signs project.And also see German traffic signs...and what about toher European Countries? And then...started again. Spain was done with the scheme :forward :backward (Kendzi first code now was obsolete).As I finish Spain I continued with European less number of traffic signs: Belgium. With no sense the I have continued with the third: The Nederlands! And Then a big idea came to me: do it well: pick all the traffic laws and traffic signs of the world. The list was big: Austria, Belgium, Brasil,Belarus, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Germany, Denmark,Estonia, Spain, Finland, France, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Indonesia,Ireland,Island,Italy,Nederlands,Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia,Sweden,Slovak Republic, Turkey, Ukraine and United States.And then , with an idea of one Catalan Community person (Thanks Esther) with LibreOffice Calc I replicated the codes for all the positions and put inside the style all the traffic signs. At the same way I put a project in taginfo, to take control of the statistics of the use of traffic signs (and to use all the icons I've got, made and upload to github) . As I will spent so many months doing every preset country (it was impossible to take all the traffic signs of all the countries over one preset, JOSM was hanging up, preset was bigger...than JOSM itself). Also it had lots of errors (I don't know how to program so it is a big deal for me to change little things) and people for JOSM were upset with it, they help me a lot as also Catalan and Spanish Communities. So I have made an "emergency preset" for every country splitting the big one.And with the same technique of the style with, Libreoffice calc I replicate the code (you can find all these basic presets in JOSM presets library)...and with the same process....why not reload kendzi code? And then I have started to do it. With "calc" way I put generic traffic signs. Also I put a second position (traffic_sign:2 as Finnish people done) and , also one new side: UP (for vertical panels, in the future.).
New year , new projects: I have suscribed to tagging list, I have participate a little more in Spanish Community (I have discovered the world of Imports!!: big processes in Spain will be done these years: all the housenumbers of Barcelona, public transport of Catalonia...and a model to replicate the big process...in every single town of Spain, in collaboration with IGN - Instituto Geográfico Nacional, thank you Santiago), and the most important: one question to the government of one member of Spanish community were answered in a very special way: with a file with the position of ALL the traffic signs of Spanish government roads: more than 500000: WTF???. Ok This file will follow the entire process of a import: discussion in local community list, imports list, process of import,process of conflation (there are few traffic signs in the map), communication and review. So we're asking the government if the file is allowed to be imported to OSM with OSM conditions. Instead of the answered tools have to be prepared. So I start to put all the codes, to search the missing codes, to make the variations of the same traffic sign..but what about destination traffic signs? There are not in the file 0_0 . So I take preset, I take Kendzi code and start to review it, to modify it, to add second position (because all the work we do for the Spanish Preset then it will be used in other countries.). Last week someone asked for a big destination panel: how you can tag it? It was my oportunity to explain it: with these tags, and near in the future you will have a preset to do it.
Then Hell opened: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? This is not correct tagging!! Ok...but is the only it works in JOSM style, preset, Kendzi...No , no it is not correct, you have to do as done in Checkautopista and OSM Lane visualizer, with multiples values, and multiples tags, relations...
Sorry, it does not work in JOSM, most used tool for mappers. I know "my solution" (based in Finnish tags) is not the better solution...but it works NOW (it worked also in 2014 but I know: past is past).
You are asking me why a destination is repeated 15 times.This is the traffic sign.
As you can see there are 15 positions to put it in the traffic sign, and 8 directions to take. It is a test, I know it is not the best way to do this but compare it with one of the first I have done three years ago.
It is not the best way, it is not perfect. But Please, help me if this is not the code, help me doing "my work". I have spent more than 4 hours writting this "post" instead of continue testing and developing roundabouts traffic signs (it is not finished yet) and advance taggin' for non-generic traffic_signs. Please help me. Thank you.
Sorry for my bad English. Sorry for my bad code.
dimarts, 31 de gener de 2017
dissabte, 28 de gener de 2017
Sobre unos edificios y direcciones que no he mapeado correctamente:
Carlos Tapia:Los números de portal y tiendas tienen que formar parte del edificio, no andar sueltos por ahí dentro.
yopaseopor:como nodo, de la misma que haga el edificio?
Carlos Tapia:Sí, tiene que ser un nodo del edificio. Así el edificio coge la dirección
yopaseopor:en la misma línea de construcción?
Carlos Tapia:Y no hace falta que pongas la dirección del comercio, porque a su vez la coge del edificio (esto en teoría, pero depende del render)
yopaseopor:(como si fuera una esquina más?) Carlos Tapia:Sí
yopaseopor:y si todo el edificio tiene la misma dirección, ¿le puedo poner las propiedades al edificio y a correr?
Carlos Tapia:También. Pero procura que la estética sea uniforme
yopaseopor: ¿y borro entonces el nodo que indicaba el portal?
Jorge Sanz: Si está dentro del edificio puesta la tienda y la dirección está en en edificio coge la dirección, no hace falta que sea un nodo del edificio la tienda
Carlos Tapia:Si lo añades a todo el edificio pon un nodo que sea entrance=main. Por ejemplo, si un edificio da a 2 calles, así se sabe por donde se entra.
yopaseopor:> Jorge Sanz> Si está dentro del edificio puesta la tienda y la dirección está .¿es malo que lo sea?
Carlos Tapia:Depende del nivel de pereza, puedes dejarlo dentro. Yo prefiero unir el comercio al edificio para dejar exacta su posición
yopaseopor:¿es malo que haya datos duplicados en edificio y tienda,que sin modificar la tienda , añada los datos al edificio?
Carlos Tapia:Yo en los comercios no pongo su dirección, si ya se la ha añadido alguien pues la dejo, no me gusta borrar cosas
Jorge Sanz:segun osmose si existen 2 cosas con la misma numeración en una calle lo considera un posible error aunque yo no lo veo exactamente así.
Carlos Tapia:Siempre se puede añadir al comercio en la dirección la coletilla de "local"
yopaseopor:con alguna etiqueta?
Carlos Tapia:puedes usar addr:housename
yopaseopor:¿y puedo no añadir los datos al edificio pero que la tienda, con todos los datos forme parte de él?
Carlos Tapia:claro, pero es mejor añadir los datos al edificio.
yopaseopor:(sí, pero estoy pensando ahora en tiendas que están en edificios que dan a dos o tres calles)
Carlos Tapia:los comercios puedes dejarlos dentro sin problemas, pero los números de portales que tienes por ahí desperdigados sí que tienen que formar parte del edificio.
yopaseopor:entonces podría dejar al edificio sin más que building=yes, sería mapeo muy básico pero sería correcto, siempre y cuando los números de portal formen parte del edificio.
Carlos Tapia:el edificio building=yes y luego un nodo con el portal,y si además le añades entrance=main perfecto :)
yopaseopor:y cuando no es un edificio, es una parcela, con edificio dentro: ¿donde pongo el número, en el edificio o en la entrada de la parcela?
Carlos Tapia: cuando es una parcela yo lo pongo en el edificio.Se puede hacer por relaciones para que tanto la parcela como el edificio tengan la dirección sin necesidad de duplicar.
yopaseopor:si no pusiera nada en el edificio pero lo pusiera en la parcela el edificio usaría las propiedades de la parcela?
Carlos Tapia:sí, por estar contenido en ella
yopaseopor:pero al revés, no pasa, cuando pones un nodo dentro de un edicio el edificio no usa las propiedades del nodo, es por eso que por lo menos debe formar parte del dibujo del edificio , como nodo del edificio.
Muchas gracias a los dos por la conversación tan clarificadora